The way it seems to me is that everyone is a bit bi-polar, mood subject to experience. I have a cousin who is going through some depression and claims he is bi-polar so he needs medication, which he isn't on to be able to get himself stable. I told him that I wasn't sure, but offered him a meditation technique which should let him find out if it is capable of working for him.

My question is, aren't most of these labels, bi-polar, depression only side-effects of the ego? And with effort on gaining awareness of the ego, something that smoeone can gain control of? I know in my expereince I wasn't diagnosed with anything, but whenever I was depressed about something it was only from buying the egos story, something I learned was a choice.

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That's a very good point and it actually does say in the beginning of a DSM-IV guide I have (the DSM series is the diagnostic guide for psychology) that all clinically diagnosable conditions are essentially exaggerations of traits and tendencies present in "normal" human beings. In other words, many people experience some level of anxiety often, but in most people it does not reach a threshold where it can be diagnosed as an anxiety disorder.

This is why threshold criteria are established... to distinguish from a person who just leans toward being anxious (for example).

With bi-polar, your example, depressive and manic episodes must meet not only severity thresholds, but there are other factors such as duration of each. If a person has a "mood swing" during the afternoon of one day, it's likely not bi-polar (which usually includes extended periods of ups followed by extended periods of downs... off the top of my head, I believe it's measured in weeks or months).

It's interesting stuff.

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This is something I've wondered often in the past and is an excellent question! How do clinical psychological conditions relate to LoC? I have no answer, really.

I'd love to see Rob toss out some thoughts on this. I know he's taken classes on psychology and coupling that with good insight, he'd probably have really good input.

I know there's the general statement that spiritual progress can heal. ACiM can heal as one gets far enough through. These probably relate to your question, since healing is not just physical. Also, Hawkins has commented that a clinician who calibrates higher (500s I believe he was talking about) has a much greater success rate in general than clinicians calibrating lower.

Meditative techniques may or may not be able to help. Surrender may.


Tim

Thanks Tim, I also know that my fiance who used to take medication for depression stopped and then talked about feeling the need to go back on. Then I got into some spiritual work, and through the influence of mine together with some of the teachings she accepted, she no longer talks about depression. So I don't know what she was diagnosed with specifically other thn depression, but she has seemed to work herself out of it with awareness.

Hey there
first post and all.
I would love to find out more about this as i have just been diagnosed with BP.

I pray ever day, go to church, stay at zen monestarys, read most of hawkins books. listern to high calibrating music and watch films, meditate everyday met the dalai lama and still I cant shake it.

but i wonder how it affects the LOC cause when i'm down i'm in despair but winston churchill and van gough and abe lincon had depression so it seems all perplexing to me???

any thoughts or relevant calibrations????

much love peace and blessings to all
joe

Thanks for the sharing zeneyes. Welcome to the board:)

I'd love to ask you a couple questions if you are open to discussing n a public forum.

With all of the work you have done, have you seen any progression at all? When you hit a low, is in not possible to do a basic meditaion of surrendering the thoughts and focusing on awareness to relieve the sense of depression?

This might be popular knowledge around here already, but in the Hawkins book healing and recoivery it seems to me that it says our thoughts create energies, so if you do not identify with the thoughts and focus soley on the enrgy the thought that created it, the energy disapates.

Is it then impossible for someone bi-polar to focus on awareness or away from the thoughts, or might you not be at a level that you are capable of it already? Any input welcome.

I just love how there is so many people here having these great discussions and calibrating everything they can get there hands on!! good stuff

I kinda see alot of progression in some ways; like I lived a turbulent life and was kinda a sinner who then found the light and it was definatly a hitting rock bottom thing.

but this all seems seperate from the bi polar in which absolutely nothing seems to influence it exept hopefully the lithium which I'v just started taking.

I think the context and things hawkins provides help to see the nature of suffering and not just to see it all as pointless and cruel.

I'm just starting on the book healing and recovery. so I'll have a look see with that.

I do wonder about some things though like if a man is born with phsychosis and kills someone how can they be karmically acountable for doing so considering they were out of contol and if anyone suffered that condition they would have done the same.

any thoughts?

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Before knowing such titles (phsychosis)actually have a greater meaning other than various level of simply being mindless or unaware, I had never thought about such a thing. Of course it seems that every is born at perfect levels of what they represent LOC wise, and not by chance, so that must be remembered. Nothing is impossible in the world, I believe everything can be healed in the context of progressing past it(being healed, or surrendered) But of course now with your perspective on Bi-Polar, a little research would be beneficial. We might not understand everything about karma, but we know that you have to undo it somehow, so it must be a chance to undo something somehow.

Your experience seems to be a great example of someone diagnosed with Bi-Polar, that is doing a great amount of spiritual work, making 'alot of progression in some ways'(your words) yet able to identify how the Bi-Polar seems relatively unaffected by the work. Does that sound accurate?

I wouldn't dream of dismissing medication, even DH says when something comes up, appraoch it with everything you can, physical, mental, and spiritual. So it will be exciting to see how you progress with such a great appetite for spiritual work.

Could I ask how the medication changes your experience? Does it enable you to control your emotions easier, dull them altogether or otherwise? Does it hinder anything in your experience?

Thanks again for being so helpful, I'm already learning so much from what you've shared with us:)

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All conditions that befall us are probably karmic matters, and thus, they are likely to be due in part to the ego, or at least the collective consciousness...
However, the question seems to point towards the resolvability of issues like BiPolar, which is a seemingly different bag of issues.
While BiPolar seems to exist primarily as a 'mind' condition, it isn't as correctible as an attitude, which is curable by merely choosing a different perspective.

It might be something like having an amputated limb...simply choosing to think about it differently....heck, even exposing the condition to extremely high level fields, isn't going to dissolve the condition necessarily.
When it comes to BiPolar, we don't really know whether it's like an amputated limb, or if it is something like an infected cut that will heal in time if we just give it the right sort of attention.

When it comes to mental conditions though, regardless of whether they can be treated medically or surgically, it is possible to overcome them by extreme discipline, and adherence to really good habits.

I know a girl with an older brother who is addicted to drugs, in and out of jail, with probable fetal alcohol syndrome...her sister has diagnosed learning and developmental disabilities, and the girl I know probably has a learning disability too....however, with her drive and integrity and good habits she was valedictorian of her highschool class, and she's got two university degrees with hopes of one day doing a masters degree too. Her alignment is with success...and it renders her unstoppable in most everything she sets her mind to.

Attitude makes a huge difference.

Actually, I know two people who are diagnosed with BiPolar disorder, and the difference between their lives is incredible. One of them is the loving father of 3 beautiful children. His life is not without struggle, but there is a predominant theme of surrender, and transcendence, and work, and growth. His life has been very hard...it has been very hard for him, and very hard on his children and wife...but they endure it with a lot of dignity. The condition is real, but it is not an excuse for him to deny responsibility for the meaning that his life is about.

The other person I know with the condition has a totally different attitude. He is a highschool drop out, and is quick to tell anybody who'll listen about the fact that he is BiPolar. He uses it as an excuse to not try at things. He is content to let the government care for him, because he lacks the willingness to take care of himself.

Both of them have issues with self-esteem, depression, anxiety and with drugs...but one rises above the challenges by commitment to his own highest good, while the other is resigned to being a victim of circumstance.

In a sense, such conditions may shape one's life such that they feel like an amputee on their way up mount everest...but the mountain can be scaled...it just takes a little persistence, a lot of work, and the love of God.

What a gift a condition would be if it could absolve one from responsibility for his actions...
I don't think that's the case with psychiatric disorders though...because nobody ever does anything bad on purpose. Life is very much about owning one's experience and rising up to the responsibility of being steward to it...difficult conditions or otherwise.

-Rob

just came across this regarding bi polar, may be worth a look but i suspect its below 200...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCFEDiwGcYU&feature=related

interesting ideas.
much love

DBT Psychology calibrates in the high 300s

http://www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Beh ... 45131/ref=tmm_pap_title_0

Here's a workbook that popped up on Amazon

In addition to that, there's Jerry Jampolskys writings (Attitudinal healing), ACIM, The Sedona Method and 12 Step Groups